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Updated by user Nov 16, 2012

A few days ago, I submitted a question to the president of Progressive Insurance. I asked him, given the history (which I cited below, unredacted though) of my claim, if he would still recommend that I buy Progressive Insurance in the future.

Now, obviously, I realize this would put him in an ethical quandary were he to attempt to actually answer my question directly. So -- as expected -- I received a reply from one of his cronies in the executive suite. This person told me he is certain that the President of Progressive would recommend that I purchase Progressive insurance again in the future.Why would the President of the company say anything otherwise, right? But why would HE think I would actually purchase more of the same from his outfit after his company thoroughly screwed me over?Here is the actual email thread of my conversation with these two Progressive Insurance executives.

One correction, though. I misrepresented myself; I did not move 8 times since the accident. I have only moved 6 times since the accident.======= Email to and reply from Progressive Insurance executives ========== Re: Claim Number: 08-582****NAIC Number: 155-3**** Company Name: Progressive Preferred Insurance Company Mr. Goldfarb,I\'m writing on behalf of Glenn Renwick, president and chief executive officer of The Progressive Corporation.We appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns and apologize for not meeting your expectations.

After reviewed your claim I find our handling was timely and that your policy coverages, including the option for an appraisal, was clearly communicated to you. Liability was successfully argued in your favor and we resolved your Underinsured Motorist claim.In your letter you asked if our CEO would recommend Progressive Insurance to you; based on my review of your claim, Iรขโ‚ฌโ„ขm confident that he would. If youรขโ‚ฌโ„ขd like to discuss this further, please call me at 1-48*-***-****.Sincerely,Bill GreanyBill GreanySenior Claims Manager-----Original Message-----From: Hal Goldfarb [mailto:halgol60@***.com]Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 08:41 PMTo: Glenn Renwick; emaildocs@***.progessive.comSubject: Where is Flo when you have a claim?Dear Mr. Renwick:I was directed to email you directly by Sharon, whom I came in contact with through your new policies line.

I appreciate your taking the time to take a look at this disaster of a scenario in claims handling. I believe that your company has made an egregious error in judgment, a terrible choice in ethical practices.Attached is a diary of all of the events that transpired in the aftermath of my having been rear-ended in the summer of 2008. My vehicle was destroyed, the attending officer certifying to me by phone that I was clearly NOT at fault in ANY way at all, yet I ended up losing my car (needed for my job), and then my job (needed to pay for my apartment), and then my apartment (needed to sleep and eat in), and then slowly but steadily wound up homeless. I have moved at least 8 times since then.The point to this inquiry at this very late date (more than 4 yearshence) is not for any other reason than to seek your advice: Would yourecommend to me that I purchase Progressive Insurance in the future?

Please read my diary and let me know your decision on what I should do next.

Also, be sure to investigate all the policies and premiums I have paid to your company over the past decade or so.That is ALL I want to know. I appreciate your reply so much.Sincerely,Hal Goldfarb=========================== End of email thread ==========================

Original review posted by user Nov 14, 2012

I sent this diary to the President of Progressive Insurance asking him whether I should consider buying their auto insurance ever again. I maintained this log of events after the accident exactly because I was worried of getting screwed over one more time in this life, and I only get one life, unfortunately.

Please read this diary, and then I will also share the subsequent emails with their corporate office. After you read it, will you consider buying Progressive Insurance? If you still would, good for you -- keep Flo employed! If not, though, perhaps you would consider joining me to find Flo a new position, JUST IN CASE I ruin it for her current job. The choice is always yours, of course. But I am really hoping Wikileaks will pick this up and expose the Insurance industry for the rot that it truly is.

BTW, I am willing to testify that the diary below is accurate and as complete as possible, although it ended when I could no longer keep up with it (I was already being evicted). You may share this -- whether you agree with my feelings or not -- with anyone and everyone you like. If I can actually murder a corporation (remember they are people now), the trip to prison will be well worth it. I'm too old to put up with this nonsense anymore. Thanks for your consideration, and again, whether you agree or not.

============================ Diary =================================

6/17/2008 I spent nearly $2000 at Midas replacing the entire air conditioning system in my 2000 Toyota Echo with 163000 miles.

6/18/2008 My Toyota Echo was rear-ended by another car driven by [redacted, name of other driver]. This occurred in Peoria on 83rd Ave on the bridge just south of where Greenway would intersect if that street went through (15400 North). I had been having difficulty accelerating. I turned on my emergency flashers and pulled as far to the right as I could without contacting the sidewalk barrier; I felt that I had taken every conceivable safety precaution I could under the circumstances (I was not carrying flares, to the best of my knowledge). At least one vehicle safely passed in the left lane. As I tried to get the vehicle restarted, my car was struck by the other vehicle. The other car's front right corner collided with my car's left rear corner. Both vehicles were declared a total loss at the scene; the tow truck operator had to literally pull the two cars apart.

The other vehicle, driven by [redacted, name of other driver] of Peoria, was occupied by a man and a baby according to the police report. All 3 went to the hospital.

I did not go to emergency room because I was scared that I might get stuck with the medical bill, which I cannot pay for. (This has happened to numerous other people I know personally.) I had very minor injuries, including a sore lower back and some small bruises. I was in a haze, the temperature being nearly 115 degrees. This "haziness" along with general anxiety, brief intermittent headaches, and slight nausea from time to time would be with me for the following weeks. In the week or so following the accident, I had trouble sleeping and my appetite was noticeably depressed. I also had some stiffness in the muscles on the sides of my neck.

I realized I needed to get a rental car as soon as possible. I opened a claim through my insurer, Progressive Insurance (claim number 08582****). [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor], my adjuster, told me they could not offer me a rental until they had inspected my car.

6/19/2008 I took a day off from work to rest. I searched for comparables on cars.com and cartrader.com on the Internet from home, discovering that my particular year, make, and model was running about $6000-**** and was not widely available locally. Locally, I found two Echos with similar mileage being offered at $5995 each.

I contacted the officer ([redacted, officer attending accident scene]) answering the accident call and he informed me that he had cited [redacted, name of other driver] at the scene and that she was at fault in the accident.

Progressive contacted me to rent me a car. Later that day, Enterprise gave me a car under the insurance claim, at $30/day including taxes, which is the maximum coverage offered by my Progressive policy.

6/20/2008 Progressive adjuster [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor] contacted me to offer settlement. The offer was for approximately $4500, which was not enough to cover replacement of my vehicle. He informed me that Progressive uses the NADA bluebook to determine values. He also informed me that this was a non-negotiable offer. Adjuster informed me he was terminating my rental insurance on 6/23/2008 (the following Monday).

I felt pressured, and frankly, bullied, into taking this offer. Since I would lose my job if I did not get a rental arrangement soon, or a satisfactory settlement, and since I did not have any financial reserves available to me to make up the difference between the offered amount and the likely cost of the replacement, I felt compelled to find another approach.

decided to open a claim with the other's insured; my adjuster gave me the claim number (33037) with Texas Colonial General Agency. When I called, I was greeted by a person who directed me to [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor], the adjuster. I reached his voicemail and left him a message to contact me. I did not hear back from him that day. Texas Colonial only has business hours M-F 8-5. Note that I spent the entire morning working on all of this, losing half a day of work.

6/23/2008 I left another message for [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] early in the day asking him to contact me immediately. Enterprise contacted me saying that they needed to retrieve the car; Progressive adjuster [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor] told the rental company that "I had settled with the insurance company" (which I had not of course) and Enterprise was ready to talk to me about purchasing a used Enterprise car. I asked them to verify the statement by [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor] that I had settled, and they reiterated that was, in fact, what [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor] had said. I corrected their information, but Enterprise indicated that they could no longer rent me the car. Forced to surrender the rental car, my boss agreed to provide a rental for me for the week so that I could work. We transferred the rental from Progressive to [redacted, owner of my employing company]. [redacted, owner of my employing company] agreed to do this so that he could continue to operate his business.

Later in the day, I tried again to reach [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor]. Each time I called, the receptionist at Texas Colonial would put me into the adjuster's voicemail. Finally, I informed the receptionist that I had an "emergency" and she put me on hold. When [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] finally answered the phone he was angry because he claimed that he had been pulled him out of an important meeting concerning a high-profile project he was working on "for the CEO of this company." He also stated he wasn't even supposed to be handling my claim, but did not indicate who was supposed to be handling it. He refused to arrange for a rental car or medical assistance (I indicated I wanted to see a chiropractor). I asked him if he had listened to my messages. He said he did not always get around to doing that.

[redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] told me he could not start a claim until they had started an investigation. He could not do that because he had not been contacted by [redacted, name of other driver]. I had to interrupt him to point out that his insured was 100% at fault in the accident. Finally he said to fax him a copy of the police report. I asked him why he couldn't do this himself, but said he wasn't required to do anything until his insured reported a loss. I warned him that I was at risk of losing my job if a fair settlement for a replacement vehicle was not offered soon.

6/24/2008 I called Peoria Police to obtain the report, but they informed me that they did not have the report yet. I asked if I could get a copy of the ticket issued to [redacted, name of other driver], but they said that would be some time before it was in their computer system.

6/25/2008 I called Officer [redacted, officer attending accident scene] again who told me that he had already sent in the report and that it would be available in 7-10 business days. He also told me that in Arizona it is the insurance company's responsibility to begin an investigation as soon as it is notified of any loss by any party. The Officer also positively confirmed for me that I was not in any way at fault. Realizing this, I felt angry and contacted Texas Colonial again. This time, I purposely left a message on [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor]'s machine so that I would not have to listen to him make excuses for inaction on his part. I reminded him that I had lost time from work, that I was likely to lose my job because of this accident, and could face eviction as a result. I gave him two choices: Either arrange a rental car by Friday morning, or I he could discuss the matter further with my lawyer.

6/26/2008 The stress and haziness I was living with was starting to lift when I realized that I could try calling the local agent for the other's insured. I was hoping they might be able to get some movement in the matter. I spoke to [redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial](?) who said he had not heard from [redacted, name of other driver]. He offered to call Texas Colonial and see what he could do.

6/27/2008 I spent a few hours early in the day trying to find a lawyer (which made me late to work again). I contacted [redacted, name of first lawyer I contacted] who specializes in insurance bad faith, who requested my car's year, make and model and a synopsis of the accident history, even before they asked for my name! They did call me back, telling me to check for comp prices; the firm did not seem to want to handle my case. I also spoke to the Arizona Dept. of Insurance. I explained that Progressive was lowballing me with the NADA bluebook; they told me insurance companies are free to use any particular method they desire. They told me I could enter a complaint, but could not offer any advice on how to handle my situation. They also gave me the name of a contact at Progressive Insurance who might be able to help me. (I believe this was someone in compliance.) Her name is [redacted, name of some Progrssive Insurance contact] in Mayfield Village, OH. I left a message from her on voicemail.

[redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor] contacted me asking me if Texas Colonial had gotten back to me with a settlement. He again offered to settle with me through Progressive, but I declined unless they came way up on their offer. He then told me that he was required to use the NADA bluebook, and this was due to regulations. I started to correct him, telling him that the state department of insurance says there is no statute requiring them to use any particular method (I had just spoken to the Dept of Insurance that morning). He continued to insist it was some sort of law or the like. I finally told him he was bullying me and asked him why he really was calling me. He responded that he was just trying to see if there was any way he could help me, and to tell him what I had heard from Texas Colonial.

Texas Colonial did not contact me. My boss allowed me to complete the work day using the vehicle rented on his personal account.

6/28/2008 I returned the rental car to Enterprise. At this time, I have no car, possibly no job, and rent is due by the 5th. I had been trying to catch up on my rent payments, which have been late every month since December. Had this accident not occurred it is very likely I would have been able to pay on time. I may be facing court costs in addition to late rent fees, and possible eviction. I feel sick and hopeless.

I found the website of lawyer [redacted, name of 2nd lawyer I contacted] who also specializes in insurance bad faith. His website includes summaries of actual cases he has handled, which include Progressive Insurance, which is my carrier. His office hours are only during the week, but I tried to contact them by both email and phone messages.

I also did some additional comparison pricing. Kelly Bluebook's estimate of my car's value is much closer to the prices I am seeing on cartrader.com and cars.com. I performed side-by-side comparisons of Kelly and NADA; there seems to be a $1500 difference or so between the two.

6/30/2008 Left a message for attorney [redacted, name of 2nd lawyer I contacted] with a brief overview of my case, my number, and my email address.

Have not heard from Progressive Compliance person. Left message again; only voicemail available.

Called Cornerstone National Insurance Company out of frustration with Texas Colonial, which still has not gotten back to me at all. The voice mail menu directed me to [redacted, name of claims center employee] in their after-hours claims center. (This call was made early afternoon Arizona time, so I am not sure why I was directed to "after-hours" claims.) I asked her for the direct number (1-88*-735-****) and tried again. After speaking with someone named [redacted] for approximately 8 minutes, I discovered that she was in auto glass claims, not regular claims. She put me on hold to speak to a supervisor. She then turned over the call to the supervisor, [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor]. I explained my whole story, including my frustration with Texas Colonial and their stalling tactics, including how the adjustor had told me he couldn't start a claim until [redacted, name of other driver] contacted Texas Colonial. [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor] asked me for the claim number (33037), which I gave him, but he could not locate any claim by that name ([redacted, name of other driver]). He then took down my information and promised me he would direct it on to their claims department. He said it should get there "tomorrow" (7/1/2008) and someone would be getting back to me. I also told him that I was annoyed with Progressive and that I had closed my claim with Progressive. [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor] asked me how much I was looking for and I told him upwards of $10,000 or so, partly to cover my need for chiropractic visits. I warned him that I was already seeking legal advice concerning my original Progressive claim and that I would much prefer to avoid this type of action with Cornerstone; he indicated that he also preferred to avoid legal action if possible. I requested that he "expedite" my claim, being that this is going on close to two weeks since the accident.

7/1/2008 Attorney [redacted, name of 2nd lawyer I contacted] called me. We spoke for a few minutes. He said he couldn't afford to take my case because he charges $350/hour and those hourly fees could not be retrieved from the court.

call back from compliance at Progressive ([redacted, name of some Progressive Insurance contact]). She said she doesn't know why AZ Dept of Insurance has people with complaints calling her. She offered to get me in contact with [redacted, name of Progressive Insurance claims manager], Progressive Claims Manager for [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor]'s area.

Called Cornerstone again, this time speaking to [redacted, name of Cornerstone representative]; I asked to speak to [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor]. He said he wasn't sure if [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor] worked in his area. I asked if he could look up [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor]'s extension. [redacted, name of Cornerstone representative] then told me he did not see [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor]'s extension anywhere. Finally, he told me that [redacted, name of Cornerstone supervisor] was out of the office.

Called Desert West Insurance; spoke to [redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial]. [redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial] asked me if I had gotten the letter [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] had sent him a copy of. He read the letter to me. He said he got his copy on the 20th. I had never received any such letter, nor had [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] indicated that he would send me anything. He said he would call Texas Colonial and put me on hold. After 10 minutes, I hung up and called Desert West again. The person answering (who sounded a lot like "[redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial]") said that he had heard [redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial] talking to [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] and that [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] would get back to me tomorrow (7/2/2008). This "other" person told me that [redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial] had to run out of the office. This seemed odd, given that [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor]'s voice mail indicated he was out of the office on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and that I could never get through directly to [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] myself. How was "[redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial]" able to get hold of [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] so instantly? Also, why did "[redacted, name of local agent for Texas Colonial]" leave the office with me on hold?

By end of business, I had not heard from [redacted, name of Progressive Insurance claims manager] at Progressive.

Further research on the Internet reveals that Desert West Insurance (desertwestins.com) claims that "We work with preferred risk drivers and drivers with driving record or payment problems." Search on the AZ dept of Insurance website does not reveal any entity called Desert West etc.

Received letter, dated June 20th, from Texas Colonial today containing claim form, and other items from [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor].

7/2/2008 I called the AZ department of insurance again to find out if I am compelled to follow the Texas regulations included with the claim application from Texas Colonial. The person answering the phone there could not answer this specifically, but did indicate I am limited by the constraints of the Texas Colonial policy (no rental car or other relief until after they complete their investigation). The policy covered rentals up to $22/day.

Received call from [redacted, name of 2nd Progressive Insurance adjustor] of Progressive (not [redacted, name of Progressive Insurance claims manager], as per my prior conversation with [redacted, name of some Progrssive Insurance contact]) who pretty much re-iterated the same deal as previously offered by [redacted, name of 1st Progressive Insurance adjustor]. She had made a small adjustment for some wheel coverings only. I explained the problem in trying to find a similar vehicle for replacement. I told her I could mail her comps; she seemed to be open to this, although she stated she did not think it would make any difference in their final decision. I mailed her 1 listing for an Echo with 132,000 miles, which had been lowered in price from $6100 to $4999 according to the dealer, located in Avondale. I could no longer find the 2 Echos I saw a week or so ago that were asking $5995 each.

Received call from [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] at Texas Colonial. He says he finally spoke to [redacted, name of other driver] and she could not give any acceptable reason for causing the accident. He said he will have my car inspected. He also told me he would not pay for storage of my car after the 27th. He emphasized, even before I responded to that warning, that he had warned me of this in our 6/23 conversation. I have no notes to that effect. He began yelling and speaking irrationally, asking me if I had recorded the conversation, which of course I had not; I had taken notes throughout. He challenged me to prove that he had not warned me about the storage costs, and I replied that there is no way I can prove that he didn't make a certain statement or other. Also I asked him where I should have moved the car to; he equivocated and said I should have moved it wherever I wanted to move it. He also said that he had advised me to make my claim through Progressive and have them subrogate the claim. My notes (see above) do not indicate that he had advised me this way, and even if he had, I believe that I had a right to make a claim against his insured's policy. He continued hollering and screaming and then slammed the phone on me.

At this point, I was already under duress and feeling desparate, with my rent coming due on the 5th. I returned the call to [redacted, name of 2nd Progressive Insurance adjustor] at Progressive. I reached her voicemail, leaving her a message that I had sent her 1 comp I could find that comes even close to her offer.

A short time after [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor]'s call, he left a message on my phone saying that I deserved better treatment than he had just given me. He reiterated that he was sending an appraiser out to look at my car and would discuss this claim again with me tomorrow (7/3). He indicated that he wanted me to answer my phone when he calls me and would discuss the matter calmly and respectfully with me. He also added that he just found out that he has cancer and that this is affecting his mood and behavior.

7/3/2008 I received a call back from [redacted, name of 2nd Progressive Insurance adjustor] who informed me that I could either take the offer Progressive gave me or wait (probably) for months until Texas Colonial completed its own investigation. She told me [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] had contacted her (!) and said he had sent out an appraiser. [redacted, name of 2nd Progressive Insurance adjustor] said she believed it was my call to [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] the day prior that probably got [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] moving on my case. But in any case, it would be some time before I would see any settlement. Also, [redacted, name of 2nd Progressive Insurance adjustor] indicated that Progressive could not pay for my medical and that I would have to go through Texas Colonial for reimbursement, and that Texas Colonial would not be able to arrange for medical payments until they had completed their own investigation.

In desperation and fear of losing my apartment, I chose to "accept" -- under duress -- the offer by Progressive. A representative came to my house later that day to give me the check; I only had to sign 3 copies of the title release and one copy of an odometer verification.

I rode my bicycle to a Desert Schools branch to deposit the check and get a money order for my rent, which is $670, and then rode back to my apartment to pay the landlord. I then had only a few thousand dollars left, which would have to get me through the next weeks until I were to find work again.

Throughout this process, I have been searching and applying for any local positions, including a supermarket and a drugstore within walking distance from my house. I am hoping to at least make enough to pay my rent and bills over the next month or so.

7/4/2008 I found a website that specializes in small claims (smallclaimslawyers.com) and submitted a request for assistance.

7/8/2008 Call from Legend (623-721-****) asking me for last 4 digits of VIN. Said he was on the way to appraise my car. Would call [redacted, name of Texas Colonial adjustor] for the VIN info.

7/14/2008 Visited [redacted, name of 1st doctor I visited], a chiropractor within walking distance from my apartment. However, [redacted, name of 1st doctor I visited] refuses to take accident injuries and referred me to [redacted, name of doctor who cared for my injuries].

7/16/2008 Visited [redacted, name of my chosen doctor], referred by [redacted, name of 1st doctor I visited]. I had to bicycle to [redacted, name of my chosen doctor]'s office because it is nearly 5 miles from my apartment. It is too hot in Arizona in July and August to be walking in the afternoon sun for probably an hour each way. Morning appointments were not available every weekday due to the doctor's summer hours.

[redacted, name of my chosen doctor] diagnosed my injuries and identified where and how often I had pain. I related the poor sleep and headaches I was having. He also took X-Rays and started me on therapy in his office. [redacted, name of my chosen doctor] instructed me on an exercise regimen which I was to perform 3x a day at home. I am to make an appointment every day for the first several weeks. I agreed to visit every weekday at 2:00 p.m.

7/17/2008 [redacted, name of my chosen doctor] discussed my X-Rays with me in his office during my visit. There was much evidence of whiplash, which is typical in a rear-end collision. In the month since the accident, damaged soft tissue has had time to heal, but tends to heal shorter than normal; this in turn causes stretching of tissue and attendant pain. He said I should have gone to ER immediately; however, I explained my concerns about being stuck for a huge hospital bill under our so-called healthcare system. He also urged me not to ride my bicycle except for appointments and other absolutely necessary trips. He agreed that it was too hot to walk 5 miles each way in the summer heat. Also performed the prescribed exercise regimen 3x that day at home.

7/18/2008 Visited [redacted, name of my chosen doctor] at 2:00 p.m. for therapy and feedback. Performed prescribed exercises 3x at home.

7/21/2008 Visited [redacted, name of my chosen doctor] at 2:00 p.m. for therapy and feedback. Performed prescribed exercises 3x at home.

asked [redacted, name of my chosen doctor] if it is wise for me to be applying for jobs involving manual labor right now (such as the supermarkets and drugstores I have been applying to). He said I should be very careful if I take such positions and to stop immediately if my problems get worse.

7/22/2008 Visited [redacted, name of my chosen doctor] at 2:00 p.m. for therapy and feedback. Performed prescribed exercises 3x at home.

================================ DIARY ENDS =========================

I have another file which I will post later on, depending on interest. If anyone has suggestions where else I can post this to alert potential victims of these scams by Progressive and Colonial, please post them. Thank you very much. Together, we can kill one monster! Feel free to submit to Wikileaks (if you know how to, I don't) ... :D

Also, if anyone would like to post alternative careers for Flo, please do so. She seems like a nice person, and I would hate to see her suffer because the company she represents is not doing justice to her public image.

Monetary Loss: $10000.

Location: Montgomery, Alabama

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flo is just another liar at progressive she just gets paid a little more money than the regular liars at progressive all lyin thievin crooks criminals whole company should be charged with r.i.c.o. act organized crime they are all lyin thieves.glenn renwick is ceo head thief he has to know claims ppl are all thieves

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reply icon Replying to comment of Guest-576915

You are an ***.

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reply icon Replying to comment of Guest-637544

Not a constructive comment. Why is Jim an *** as you put it? It sounds like the poster just might have a point about this crooked company?

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